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ghosts69 1 post 7-Sep-2005 7:59 AM	hi iv alwys wanted to try a weiji board to see if they are acually real, but i have learnt that there is a lot more behind them than i thought. does any one now how to open and close weiji boards? and has anyone tryed one before?
sdparanormal 102 post s 7-Sep-2005 9:38 AM	Hi, Please do not mess with Quija Boards. If you have a God given gift for spirit communication you are protected by your guides. If you have an issue with a spirit and are trying to communicate then you have a right cause. This is not a toy and you can cause yourself some problems. Thanks, Bonnie Vent San Diego Paranormal Research Project www.sdparanormal.com
PhenomInvestigator 25 post s 11-Sep-2005 1:48 AM	I would like to second Bonnie's position on the Ouija. While it is technically a 'toy' it appears to have some unexpected effects on those who use it. If communication is to occur it will. You will not have to use mechanic to do so. Listen to your internal dialog - you may be quite surprised at what you hear.
BatBoy 6 post s 13-Sep-2005 9:43 PM	ghosts69 In reality, there's a perfectly simple explanation for Ouija boards, it is called ideomotor response. The subconscious is actually moving the stylus without the conscious mind being aware. In away, it's a form of self-expression for the subconscious. No spirits involved here just simple high school psychology. Here is an experiment, you can try yourself. Take to friends and have them to operate the Ouija board. Starting off with simple yes, no questions. Once they are familiar with the operation of the board blindfold your friends, and turn the board 180°. Of course do this while their blindfolded. I bet you can guess what happens next. Have your friends resume asking the board simple yes and no questions. The stylus will then move to the area where the participants think the answer is printed. When the board was in its original position. You have to ask yourself if spirits are involved with the operation of the board. Then why would it make any difference if the operators are blindfolded? After this experiment, you can move on to the second part, take the blindfold's off of your friends and move the board back to its original position. Then blindfold your friends again. Start asking the board questions that would involve the answers to be spelled out the answers always come out as nonsense. This is of course, because the subconscious has no frame of reference. As to the location of the alphabet printed on the board. In our first experiment , the yes no questions are a simple motor movement, which the subconscious can easily repeat. There are also older experiments which involve using operators who are illiterate. Or giving operators, profiles of individuals who they are to contact. But what the operators don't know is that this individual never existed. As a side note, I personally own about 35 antique Ouija and Magic Talking Boards. Nothing strange has ever happened in my house. Or to me personally. BatBoy Last Edited BatBoy on 14-Sep-2005 9:52 AM
h&wteam 1 post 14-Sep-2005 11:55 PM	I would not recommend trying it out. I had an extremely scary experience when I was in my late teens that makes me believe there is some powers you should not mess with. A bunch of us made our own board and played around. Getting bored waiting for my turn, I made a second board. Both boards were used in the same room at the same time. As soon as we asked if anyone where there is started moving extremely fast, much too fast for someone to push it and no one notice...and when we asked who it spelled out DEVIL. Right away we said good bye and they tried burning it, but no ones lighters would light. Finally we asked a stranger and used his lighter. Afterwards we threw away the remains into a large garbage dumpster. As soon as we threw it in, the light above it went out. Now I am not saying that is who we were communicating with, but whom ever it was, was evil. I have never touched one since and never will. Don't play with things you don't understand. To be honest, I am surprised they re even allowed to market them.
BatBoy 8 post s 15-Sep-2005 1:23 AM	Especially when teenagers have ouija sessions, there's a certain sense of expectation. The subconscious mind is more than willing to oblige. Those causing the drama in which you have described. The only power that emanates from a ouija board is the power of the mind to fool itself. I'm constantly amazed that the mind that sent men to the moon and invented the polio vaccine can be completely fooled by a $1.25 worth of plastic and cardboard. The ideomotor response (some referred to as an effect) has been understood for over a century now. It is responsible as well for automatic writing, dowsing, and pendulum swinging. The very first demonstration, I ever saw of ideomotor was in college (we will not discuss how long ago that was) . It is called the sway test. Here is all you do find a flat area and stand as straight as possible. Now try to clear your mind, but concentrate on something positive something that makes you happy. Or you can simply think yourself over and over yes. What you will find is that involuntarily your body will sway slightly forward. Now think of something negative or think to yourself over and over, no. Now your body will start sweating backwards. What the above experiment demonstrates, is that naturally, we sway towards things that are positive to us. And we repel from things that are negative. Ideomotor is a small part of what makes up our overall psyche. Its one of those small yet very amazing effects that makes us all human. And believe me your subconscious uses it day and night. My nephews and nieces who range from the ages of 9 to 20 whenever they come to see me I let them play with my ouija board collection. They have done the experiments that we have talked about dozens of times. And since they have a complete understanding of what makes the ouija board work. They have no scary experiences. Many times this is their first steps into critical thinking. Which they would tell you has been quite beneficial to their lives. See mystery understood. BatBoy
PhenomInvestigator 27 post s 18-Sep-2005 7:11 PM	As a long-time student of phenomena, ideomotor is certainly well-known to me. I have demonstrated the effect during lectures to make the point you make - how easy it is for us to fool ourselves. This is a fundamental of the talk. That said, there is another side to this. It cannot be explained by such physics - would that it could. I have spent many decades trying to understand phenomena, various forms of PK among them. The most astounding form of PK is known formally as Recurrent Intentional Psychokinesis (RIPK). Unlike so-called 'poltergeist' activity which is a manifestation of RSPK (Spontaneous) RIPK is actually under control. While the Ouija may be explained in many cases by normal causation, there are others including board levitations, that do not lend themselves to such easy explanations. I certainly agree and concur that expectations, perceptions and goal-oriented phenomena desires often can and do color various experiments in phenomena research. However, consider the 70 year old San Diego lady who for her entire life tipped tables. No chicanery - I was a conjurer for many years, designed many illusions, and am very experienced in the art of deception. I have a background in engineering as well. This lady was studied by many respected teams over the years. Bottom line was you had to see it and study it to believe it. This was the real thing. I have since seen other similar things, although non so repeatable nor so impressive. The Ouija is somewhat like the true table tip or levitation. When it does occur it takes us to a place that is so far from our normal experience we have a difficult time facing its reality even if we believe we are prepared for it. I encourage everyone to question why, to be cautious even suspicious of what you are told and what you experience. But test it..really test it to your best ability. Accept nothing at face value and be honest with yourself about your emotions surrounding the event; you will find that puts a different light on your perspective - one that shines in places you may or may not expect. Again, we have too much anecdotal evidence for problems with Ouija. It's just easier and wiser to stay away. You never know all the conditions and all the risks.
BatBoy 10 post s 20-Sep-2005 9:38 AM	I have never been very interested in table tipping. Once again it is nothing more than another effect of ideomotor response. I'm sure that you're familiar with the experiments of Michael Fairaday, who's customized table demonstrated that the sitters were the ones who were actually tipping the table. There's also a very simple experiment of putting a smooth piece of paper between the sitters hands and the table. Once the traction of the hands as been taken away by the paper the table does not move. There are also the frauds, who use such methods as custom-made boots to fit under the table a and of course, the all popular wrist wires. I'm sure that I don't have to tell you, whenever investigations of the paranormal are performed. I never let someone who is making the claim operate on their terms. They have to operate under my terms for example, if the psyche claims that they can see through a blindfold and guess what number appears on the top of dice or what is the identification of a playing card put in front of them. I will bring my own blindfold and place the blindfold on the subject not letting them take control. If they can indeed see through the blindfold. It should make no difference if it's my blindfold or there's. If a psychic also claims that they can identify objects in a box by just holding that box. That I will supply my own box and my own object, but with the top of the box. Securely fastened with tape. The results are generally a 95 to 100% failure. Which apparently has made no difference because the psyches have gone onto have glorious careers, performing nothing more than cold reading and basic carnival treks. What this all boils down to is that I would recommend that with your lady in San Diego. Bring your own table to the experiment perhaps two. After careful consideration. I have decided to make a single retraction in regard to statements in my past posts. There is some danger to ouija boards. That danger does not come from the spirit world but from the untethered and uncensored tap into the subconscious. If the user is not educated to this effect. It could have a negative effect towards those who have a tendency to believe in such things. It could give the user the idea that they are under attack from outside forces. Never understanding that the attacks are actually coming from within. So for those who believe that the ouija board is being controlled by the spirit world. I would recommend that they stay away from it. Only to protect themselves from themselves. When I let my nephews and nieces do their experiments. When they first start it's under careful supervision from myself. Wishing everyone well BatBoy
pyro_is_here10 3 post s 24-Sep-2005 6:39 PM	dont use one when we had one it got mad and burst in to flames it is something you dont want to get mad. about no spirts maybe all of them dont have one but atleast one or two do.
PhenomInvestigator 30 post s 25-Sep-2005 2:34 AM	We should probably take this discussion into a different thread since we are a bit off-topic talking of the table-tipping here with with respect to the original Ouija topic. I need to be very clear that we considered all known natural causes and that this effect was studied by numerous members of the established scientific community as well as other conjurers such as myself and parapsychologists who were carefully documenting phenomena of the period. One of the teams, as I may have said before, was the same team that documented the now infamous 'Entity' cases in Los Angeles. For the record, that was based on actual events not unlike what was eventually recorded in a book by the same name. They did not 'freeze' the 'entity' however, that part was entirely fictional. You do hear the two investigators' voices literally as you read the book. They discovered a dramatic elevation in Theta on EEG on this individual during table-tipping. I just recently rediscovered some work by another individual testing this same person showing wild temperature swings when monitoring using thermocouple devices. As I said, this lady was tested seven ways to Sunday and not once did anyone detect deception. It is understandable that table tipping is generally accepted as some form of fraud at worst or misunderstood willful intent at best. However, in this case the individual involved was taken out of her element, was subjected to controls, was careful to avoid the cliche practices known to any competent investigator. I say this because she was a rare gem, a rare find. Although I am assured by an executive director of the National Association of Spiritualist Churches that her practice was by no means unique and that there are those practicing reliably in this country today, they are simply very hard to find. The stigma of the early 20th century still stings for many of them. It is understandable. Against that backdrop you find those who do perpetuate the fraud, and of course there are the artists that levitate tables, people, cats and dogs and so on. All I can tell you is that is entertainment, easily explained. And I can tell you I have witnessed, under highly controlled conditions, people levitate off the floor, tables tip on numerous occasions and deliver messages, among many other things I personally classify as 'wierd'. Here's one example: I was visiting this table-tipper in San Diego one afternoon. We were asking a series of questions including a test question I had come prepared with not knowning the answer of course. I was struck that, before the table even moved on every occasion that day I, for the first time in my mind knew the answer. Absolutely without any hesitation or question. The table then spelled out the response. This was truly an interesting series of interactions. Again, physically there was an insufficient amount of energy distributed between the two of us, an almost 80 year old woman and myself at the time perhaps in my late 20s, to move that table in the ways it did. It is simply not physically possible. This was a completely different form of movement. When you do the math you simply cannot make it work without breaking the laws of physics. Therein lies my conviction that I was witnessing the real thing. You mention controls - here is an interesting aside. One scientist in San Diego, who shall go unnamed for he may still be alive, tested this same woman and claimed he could replicate what she did. I asked to see this, figuring if this were true he had caught onto a new technique that I had not seen before. I told him my only conditions were that he had to submit to the same controls I put on the table-tipper. No more, no less. I asked on repeated occasions to see this. After 5 attempts, including an offer of several thousand dollars cash money for the demonstration, I never got a bite. The reason? Easy, he could not do it. So you see, sometimes we find the proverbial shoe of proof squarely set on the other foot. That all said, I would warn everyone that there are more frauds than genuine practitioners. Look at my situation, even with 'connections' I am having a hard time finding someone with these specific skills. If you find someone, I would concur with BatBoy to be very, very skeptical, to the point of initially denying the viability of the phenomena.
BatBoy 13 post s 27-Sep-2005 10:07 AM	Excellent post! I have to say that reading your explanations make me wish to there was less of a gap between the parapsychologists and skeptics. Perhaps such a gap exists because a lot of parapsychologists believe that skeptics have the same personality as James Randi. And we're as I do know and admired James Randi his public persona leaves a lot to be desired. It would be great to meet you one day. And start bridging that gap. Your pal, BatBoy
dezzy46 1 post 29-Sep-2005 4:21 PM	I HAVE A QUESTION HOW DO I KNOW IF MY HOUSE IS HAUNTED ME AND MY FRIENDS HAVE SEEN AND HEARD THINGS IN THE HALLWAY, KITCHEN, AND IN THE DINING ROOM AREA ALSO IN MY ROOM BUT YOU WOULD THINK IM AFRAID OF GOING IN MY ROOM BUT THAT IS THE ONLY PLACE I FEEL SAFE LIKE THE "GHOST" WONT GET ME THERE SO SOME ONE PLEASE HELP DEZZY46 PS I FEEL A PRECENCE IN MY 15 YEAR OLD SISTERS ROOM LIKE IF SOME ONES THERE WATCHING ME I FEEL STUFF IN MY ROOM TOO BUT NOT THE WAY I DO IN MY SISTERS ROOM Last Edited dezzy46 on 29-Sep-2005 4:22 PM
ghost hunter 1 2 post s 23-Dec-2005 10:47 PM	WIJI BOARDS SOTHETHING THAT YOU HALF TO BE VERY CAREFULL WITH CHANNEL IN ON DIFFRENT SPIRITS OR REALMS CAN BE FUN BUT NOT NOING WERE THERE COMING FROM ALWAYS HAVE A GROUP OF PEOPLE WITH YOU OR THATS A MEDIUM OR PHYIC GHOST HUNTER 1 12/23/05 Last Edited ghost hunter 1 on 23-Dec-2005 10:50 PM
TENLOOP 3 post s 28-Dec-2005 2:50 AM	Why would anyone wanna invite criminals, gansters, ex cons, muderers into thier homes? Useing a ouiji board is doing the same thing....
Amber146 3 post s 30-Dec-2005 4:22 PM	....its a peice of cardboard and a plastic block......put out by a toy company.....its not extacly a killing machine.
TENLOOP 6 post s 31-Dec-2005 7:43 AM	iT'S MUCH MORE THAN JUST THAT AMBER... IT'S A TOOL THAT BAD SPIRITS HAVE DOMINATED. DO NOT GO TRYING TO SATISFY YOUR CURIOSITY BY CHALLENGEING IT...MORE ADVISE...
BatBoy 23 post s 1-Jan-2006 9:53 AM	I never realized that the ouija board was such a catalyst for so much mayhem. If that is the case is then I should have suffered the repercussions of such a spiritual backfire many years ago. But this has not been the case. As I mentioned earlier, I have a large collection of both ouija board and magic talking boards. Then I use for demonstrations and to show others how to experiment. Once individuals realize that the ouija board is nothing more than a very simple response called ideomotor. The genie flies out of the bottle pretty quick. If Amber or anyone else follows the guidelines that I set forth in the very early posts on this thread. Then they were reached the same conclusions as well. The only caution I would give with ouija boards is that it is an untethered glimpse into the subconscious. Individuals who are highly suggestible may believe that the board is being influenced by an outside force. It has been long-established that this is not the case. Batboy Last Edited BatBoy on 1-Jan-2006 10:23 AM
Amber146 7 post s 1-Jan-2006 4:27 PM	Most of the boards are put out by a toy company for the simple fact they ARE a toy, Im sorry but I beleive that "talking" boards no matter what there name is are for entertainment value only and not something that should be taken so seriously although Im sure many of you do not agree. The human mind can do many things without really knowing it.
sdparanormal 136 post s 4-Jan-2006 6:00 PM	I guess I would say it is rather like a gun. A gun is only as dangerous as the person holding it. The less knowledge the person has about guns the more dangerous the gun becomes. If the person has a negative intent the more likely a negative result will follow. I have heard of plenty of bad experiences that have been emotionally damaging to the people involved. I have also heard of good experiences. I would not call it a toy. Bonnie Vent San Diego Paranormal Research Project www.sdparanormal.com
PhenomInvestigator 44 post s 10-Jan-2006 11:22 PM	The ideomotor response appears to be a common reason that the ouija board works as it does. A related experiment, popular in the early 20th century was to lift a person off the floor using only four people, each using one finger. Believe it or not, it works! And it is scientifically explicable, no spirits required. But now consider this situation: a ouija board is in use, the operators realize their hands are being pushed off the planchette. The planchette continues to move on its own without any form of assistance. In fact, the former operators are standing at a distance of several feet from the moving planchette. I'm afraid ideomotor and kinetic effect won't explain that one. This precise scenario was witnessed by me in Virginia years ago. I believe I can rule out fraud and any collusion since I was able to track all the members of the group at the time and the site was inspected by me prior to anyone entering. Alternate theory: what has come to be called 'RIPK' (recurrent intentional psychokinesis). It is this apparent ability that may account for at least some of the examples of ouija. Does this necessarily mean the ouija is not 'dangerous'? I would concur with Bonnie on this. Expectations and emotions can run high; the negative consequences can range from a minor injury running out of a place thought to be 'haunted' to a psychological trauma. One doesn't need a demon to cause trouble - all one needs is the belief there is one. That all said, we should always appreciate that everything is possible and that the impossible is simply the possible at a incredibly low probability. Last Edited PhenomInvestigator on 10-Jan-2006 11:24 PM
BatBoy 27 post s 15-Jan-2006 1:47 PM	I would also agree with Bonnie that it would depend on the mental state of the operators to determine the outcome. Belief is the most powerful force on the planet if the operators are convinced that the board is being operated by an outside force. This validates what ever, the board has to say, naturally, this is far more power than the board deserves. Belief is what gives the ouija board its power. And unfortunately this untethered access to the subconscious can make a bad situation even worse. "I have seen the enemy and he is us". As far as I'm concerned, the file has been closed for a longtime when it comes to ouija boards. It is nothing more than ideomotor response , plain and simple. And the sooner individuals(primarily adolescents who use the board to scare each other), learn this. Then the better off will all be. It would surely be refreshing and I would be very impressed. If anyone from the paranormal community would announce that the ouija board ministry has been solved. But instead, all I see is the perpetuation of the believe that the ouija board is being controlled by spirits or demons. Perhaps the promotion of this belief gives them power. I'll have to think some more on that. The only groups that are teaching. The real power behind ouija boards are scientists. Some parapsychologists, psychologists and skeptics. But no one listens to us. We have taken the baby rattle apart. So is the ouija board dangerous? Only as dangerous as the belief. your pal BatBoy
ParaCurious 2 post s 3-Mar-2006 8:12 PM	Hi, I've read this thread with great interest. I realize that it's no longer about the ouija board, and I'm sorry to post yet another table tipping post. I'm researching my family's tradition of table tipping, which goes back to my great great grandfather. My goal is to learn more about the history of the phenomenon and all of the different explanations -- and there are many -- and determine my own beliefs while I interview family members and archive the family stories, which usually have a lot more to do with family than levitating tables. Basically I grew up with it, but we didn't do it often and it was more of a lighthearted activity for the most part. Most family members alternate between thinking it's something paranormal and just something like the ideomotor response -- although they describe it in a more vague fashion. It's not something that is done often in my family, so that's why I'm trying to learn more before the tradition fades. PhenomInvestigator: I'd love to find out more about this table tipper in San Diego and any experiences you have had with table tipping. I'm traveling from GA to CA in April and would like to know more about California's history with table tipping. Is it possible to contact you? Or to leave my email address on this board? I'm not sure what the rules of the board are. If not, any information you can give me about where to look for these resources would be helpful. Thanks to you and BatBoy and others for such an insightful discussion.
PhenomInvestigator 60 post s 4-Mar-2006 5:22 PM	ParaCurious, Since you asked me directly, I would be interested in conversing further with you about your family and my experiences. I should tell you that the lady I have described in previous posts in this thread is, alas, passed. That is precisely why I am looking for an equally talented individual. If you have personally witnessed or participated in table-tippings, I invite you to perform two tests. Test 1: See if it is possible to continue to tip the table with only a single operator touching the top of the table with the palm of the hand and nothing more. This is one of the key tests to see if you have ideomotor or not. Ideomotor cannot produce a tipped table under these conditions. Test 2: Place a piece of ordinary typing paper under the hand of the single operator. This completely removes the necessary friction required to develop sufficient force to tip the table by common means. You may be surprised to discover that your family members suddenly can no longer tip tables - or, more interestingly, you may discover they have no problem with these controls. Either way, the dynamics of the situation is what interests me and what I study. Therefore, I would be most pleased to meet with you and your family if practical. This board discourages, quite rightly, publication of personal email addresses. However, you are in luck. The operator of this board, available at sdparanormal.com has my email address and I will ask her to release it to you for your use in this matter alone. Please expect an email from sdparanormal.com soon in this regard.
sdparanormal 150 post s 5-Mar-2006 7:27 AM	Hi ParaCurious, I have given your e-mail address to PhenonInvestigator. Please keep us up to date on the results of the table tipping tests. I really have no policy against posting your e-mail address on the board, but it is a very public place and you could received spam or other types of unwanted mail. Thanks, Bonnie Vent San Diego Paranormal Research Project www.sdparanormal.com
BatBoy 44 post s 6-Mar-2006 12:56 AM	Waxpaper works the best. BatBoy
wolfspiritndn 3 post s 7-Apr-2006 2:54 PM	ghosts69 My bestadvice is to never use a ouija board, no matter how curious you are. They ARE real, they DO work, and they can also be extremely DANGEROUS if not used properly. I'm sure everyone else who has used one will agree. The last tome I used one...in 1994, a bad spirit was in the board and said to me "give your soul" when I asked how I could help my cousin who was in trouble. I was trying to communicate with my cousin Jennifer who had died the year before this happened. I got the bad spirit instead. They love to lie and are very deceptive. Good luck and I hope this helps with your question about ouija boards.
BatBoy 47 post s 14-Apr-2006 2:48 PM	As along as it is done in the right frame of mind. I would encourage experimentation with Ouija boards. If you employ some of the experiments that I have listed early in this thread. It becomes more than evident that the Ouija board is not being influenced by any outside forces namely spirits demons or anything else. As I have stated earlier, I have conducted these little experiments literally hundreds of times. In classrooms laboratories, my own home and others homes. And there have never been any ill affects. One less thing to fear. Your pal, BatBoy Last Edited BatBoy on 14-Apr-2006 2:52 PM
Morgana 1 post 28-May-2006 10:39 PM	Hi, my name is Morgana and im 13 years old. i was really obsessed with Ouiji boards and i used it all the time. my mother hated it and my father didnt know but guys it is bad, bad spirits enter your house and it made it ever worse since i didnt really know what i was doing. i used to always get this crazy woman who was mental and she made my light bolb smash, i still do it but i just want you guys to know what it can do. if you have any questions please email S3KSIgal@hotmail.com.
Morgana 2 post s 30-May-2006 12:26 AM	hai again, i know most of the ppl have tryed ouiji boards b4 and i hav 2 but i wanna no a lil more bout it. will the spirits get me? poses me?????? please write back morgz
BatBoy 54 post s 30-May-2006 10:52 PM	Morgana: the answer is no. There are no spirits that will get you. Your pal, BatBoy
Morgana 4 post s 31-May-2006 3:51 AM	Hai batboy thanx but they can if they wanna right?? anyway lol scary asl?? hav u done a quiji board b4??? wot did u sai 2 tlk to pplz lol???? luv ya pal morgz
Morgana 5 post s 31-May-2006 4:07 AM	Hai batboy thanx but they can if they wanna right?? anyway lol scary asl?? hav u done a quiji board b4??? wot did u sai 2 tlk to pplz lol???? luv ya pal morgz
BatBoy 55 post s 31-May-2006 4:41 AM	Morgana: I would highly recommend that you read the posts in this thread. You will find that there is a verifiable explanation for how the Ouija board works. I personally am a skeptic I do not share the believe that spirits exist at all. Your pal BatBoy
Kristine80 18 post s 4-Jun-2006 6:06 PM	OH NO NOT a good idea!!!!! please don't you open door to the spitit wourld and do not know what spirits cross through. I was watching a Haunting show on Discovery lastnight and a family, normal family puches a ouji board and plays with it, three minuted later the table startsto levetate, cubord doors bang open and shut,ect... the father decides hmmm....I think oi am going to burn the quiji boarn......Can you believe that....paranormal activity got worse and worse. things happenening in the bacement, hand prints appearing in paint colors that the family didn't have.The mother talked to a paranormal investagater and she sugested that to rule out her children before going to bed sprinkle baby powder over the floor . Waking up earilier than her children, checked the bacement,was amazed at what she found.Hand prints, and a name in fance manuscript,"LILLAN". The Investegater was with them at this time, and couldn't believe her eyes.Filled with anger and sadness,as tears welled up in her eyes replyed to the couple ("How did you guys know"? The couple looking at eachother puzzled. The investegater walked up the stairs stating that that was her daughters name. things got worse with nightmares going on with mom, figures popping out of the wall with their son, and there daughter ending up possed...called a demondologist who came into their home investegating it EVP Physics ect... One investegater was thrown down the stairs. This is why Ouji boards are NOT A GOOD IDEA!!!! Kristine80 pixiedustgul6993@yahoo.com SLC Utah Last Edited Kristine80 on 4-Jun-2006 6:10 PM
PhenomInvestigator 77 post s 5-Jun-2006 3:22 PM	Let me just interject yet another slightly off-topic comment. First a reminder : re-read this entire thread. I'll wait... Okay.. now that you have done that (you did read the thread didn't you?) my comment: Please remember that most television programs are entertainment first and fact second. They are not documentaries. As I have posted elsewhere on this board, true investigations are extraordinarily boring if done right. We do get phenomena, but not generally of the form television shows would lead to believe is common. Most television shows will take a case and hype it to degrees unknown. Most all use actors to recreate actual events and add events that never happened. Where the actual participants are used, they are often coached, scripted and the show is edited for maximum impact. This even happens on handyman shows for heaven's sake. Using the case in the previous post, I would invite you to contact the investigator in question and ask point blank what really happened. In the past when I have done this, it is amazing how the story suddenly changes. Take as an example a Ghost Hunter show aired a week or so ago. On a tape we see a blanket on a bed turn itself down. One of the TAPS tech guys caught onto the fact that the tape had been stopped then restarted, likely to erase some footage that would have given the culprit away. Without careful inspection they would have been fooled. Someone was trying to fool the team. So while the stories are interesting and fun, please remember they are generally that - just stories. At the same time, also know that the real stuff does happen. It just takes a lot of time, energy and patience to find it. You may like many, never encounter it anything phenomenal in your whole life. Last Edited PhenomInvestigator on 5-Jun-2006 3:24 PM
BatBoy 56 post s 6-Jun-2006 8:01 AM	Very good post, I would go so far as to say that all of the so-called reality based programs are staged. I would also highly suggest that anyone who is going to make a post on this thread, read the entire thread first. The wild swing in ideas is fascinating. Your pal, BatBoy
leopardlady 2 post s 8-Jun-2006 6:22 PM	I find all the posts very intriguing. I will also agree that if someone wants something to happen with a Quija board (see the disc move to whatever answer they so desire) it can be a mind over matter type of thing. However, for those people who - set their intention - on spirit communication, it can be quite dangerous. Just as those skeptics - set their intention - that there is nothing harmful with the board, or that it does not "contact spirits", it is all in what one INTENDS. And for those trying to communicate with the spirit world, I do not recommend this as the avenue to take. You would not answer your door and let a stranger in to your home - why would you open yourself up to any kind of energy you do not know? I don't beleive that anything can kill you from the Quija board, but negative energies can certainly come across. Leopardlady
BatBoy 58 post s 9-Jun-2006 12:03 AM	If spirits were involved with the operation of the ouija board them my house, should be overrun with every type of Spectre that mythology can produce. Over the years I have asked the ouija board to communicate with demons, angels, spirits, ghosts, Elvis . You name it. Even though my subconscious produced some pretty entertaining answers. I knew all along that I was in control. I have never felt once that there were outside forces controlling the board. Now either the spirits choose to ignore me, which I find very rude. Or they don't exist. And in all that time , neither me or my family have never experienced anything paranormal or out of the ordinary. The same goes for other colleagues (not all of them skeptics) once they understand that the ouija board operates on very basic principles of psychology. Then they realize their is nothing to fear. Knowledge dilutes the power of the board very quickly. your pal BatBoy
Morgana 6 post s 11-Jun-2006 8:58 PM	haii batboy sorry i haven't writen in ages!!! forgot the site! anyway thanx 4 ur letter! tlk to me on msn my addy is S3KSIgal@hotmail.com! mwa Morgana Last Edited Morgana on 11-Jun-2006 9:05 PM
BatBoy 60 post s 12-Jun-2006 7:55 AM	Morgana: first of all your-welcome, and secondly, you may want to be careful about giving out your e-mail address in a public forum. And did you get a chance to read all of the posts on this thread? And do you understand the debate? Just curious Your pal, BatBoy
MadameX 1 post 16-Jun-2006 3:51 PM	A delight to find a good discussion of Ouija boards and another collector! I'm also interested in table-tipping and the implications of The Philip Experiment. The Rhine Research Center did a survey of North American attitudes and expeiences with Ouija boards, here's the abstract: A SURVEY OF OUIJA BOARD USERS IN NORTH AMERICA John Palmer International Journal of Parapsychology, in press. A non-random sample of 373 respondents, derived mostly from Fate magazine readers and hits on the Rhine Research Center web site, completed a mail survey of Ouija Board (OJB) use. Large majorities claimed involuntary movements of the planchette and successful spirit communication. About two-thirds claimed a negative experience with the Board, and about half said they had felt a compulsion to use it. The questionnaire was factor analyzed. Respondents who used the Board alone were sent the Tellegen Absorption Scale (TAS) and Persinger's scale of Complex Partial Epileptic Signs (CPES). The mean scores on both scales were substantially elevated. Unique CPES variance correlated negatively with the number of sessions before involuntary movements occurred using the Board alone. Seventeen percent of respondents' open-ended descriptions of their OJB experiences involved ostensible ESP and 14% PK. Older respondents were more likely to describe "strong" ESP experiences and younger respondents "strong" PK experiences.
BatBoy 61 post s 18-Jun-2006 12:51 PM	It is strange that you bring up the Philip Experiment. It was one my very first studies involving the paranormal. After doing extensive research involving cults. In brief, the Philip Experiment took place in Toronto Canada in 1972. It was under the direction of Dr. A. R. G. Owen. A self-proclaimed expert in the study of poltergeists. A committee was formed with the idea of establishing communication with nonphysical entities, which the good doctor believed existed in the astral plane. They created a fictional life story, and named their character "Philip Aylesford." They created this character with a great deal of detail, including a terribly tragic death. When the group would convene for their settings. It was done much in the same way as mediums conducted séances at the turn-of-the-century. After many weeks. Phillip finally made an appearance by the means of raps on the table. Oddly enough, Philip would only answer questions within the confines of the group's knowledge of him. Even though he would give some historic information from his time. I have read the complete, Philip papers, and have also viewed a 16 mm film made for television I believe in 1974 . The film showed the table moving around the room. In my skeptical opinion. The group was experiencing nothing more than ideomotor response. However, after several weeks of cohesion as a group. They became almost a single subconscious. Or a collective. So unaware to their conscious mind their subconscious was creating the table raps and causing the table to tip. Some hard-line skeptics believe that the tail end of the experiment was nothing more than a hoax. Also what I see as a serious flaw in the experiment is that Dr. Owen sat out to prove he could establish spirit communication. In other words, he was a true believer. But I will give the experiments a lot of credit. Skeptics walked away as I did drawn to the conclusion that the group experienced a fascinating psychological event. A conclusion, which I find completely rational. On the other hand, the believers, walked away confident that Dr. Owen established that there was some type of astra plane where spirits exist. And that the group made contact with a playful ghost. That was having some afterlife fun. A conclusion that I find completely preposterous. It leased Dr. Owens was spared. The embarrassment that the paranormal community underwent during the famous Project Alpha Experiments of the early 1980s. Due to a serious lack of protocol it is very difficult to find the McDonald Parapsychology Laboratory anywhere on a map. The researchers could not detect that there two star claimants were actually magicians planted by my good friend James Randi. After the Hoax was exposed the laboratory lost its funding, and eventually it closed. Maybe we'll talk about this experiment at length some other time. Your pal, BatBoy Last Edited BatBoy on 18-Jun-2006 5:32 PM
MadameX 2 post s 20-Jun-2006 11:01 PM	Yes, I too was struck that the table movement could easily be accounted for by ideomoter effect...the rappings, I am not so sure. I can see how one might not notice one's self turning the table, but rapping? How does that happen? It would be fascinating if they had obtained some anomalous sounder generation results (PK, entities, whatever...not enough evidence to go that far.) Hare's experiments in the 1850's suffers from some of the same problems: he was familiar with the ideomoter effect, did design apparatus to minimize it, but became emotionally committed to the afterlife hypothesis and reported his results in narrative form that doesn't make it clear when he is using his ideomoter suppressive apparatus versus other means (subject to ideomoter and/or Clever Hans effects). For our studio audience: imagine what it would mean if you saw an Ouija board planchette moving on its own, no strings, no table tilting, no magnets, no tricks.
BatBoy 65 post s 7-Jul-2006 12:17 AM	I'm sure that there was a group version of Clever Hans as the study went on. Also the rapping can be explained with ideomotor. But rapping as well as table tipping itself. Can be faked so easily this is why a majority of skeptics believe that the latter part of the experiments were a complete hoax. For me, the jury's still out. In a hurry Your pal BatBoy Last Edited BatBoy on 7-Jul-2006 12:19 AM
PhenomInvestigator 80 post s 12-Jul-2006 11:13 PM	I've been away from this rampant thread for awhile, so it's time to reiterate a few points. First, bat boy's explanation of ideomotor response is quite rational for table tipping and has been observed in a large majority of the cases reported. It is rare that one finds a credible example of table tipping, table walking or table tilting (all the same thing). The best test is as follows: is it possible for a single operator to maintain the table tipped with one-quarter of one hand on the table and furthermore cuase the table to continue to move as it did before in this mode. The physics of ideomoter completely fail with this simple experiment. Recurrent Intentional Psychokinesis (RIPK) is the formal name for this class of phenomena. Other examples include online tests where subjects attempt to influence various visual devices that are controlled by a random-number generator. These have been variously reported in the Journals of the Society for Psychical Research and the American Society for Psychical Research as well as the Parapsychology Journal published by the Parapsychological Association (PA). All of these papers are peer-reviewd. The Phillip Experiment has undergone a good deal of post-hoc analysis, including that referred to by MadameX. At this time, we are attempting to locate an individual or group that has demonstrated verifiable abilities with this phenomena. The control conditions have been established and are designed to validity of the phenomena. There was also an extended study similar to that of the Phillip group at the SPR in London with similar results. The results of this work was published in the Joural of the SPR during the 1990s.
sammyj17 1 post 26-Jul-2006 6:42 PM	alright..... my freind and i r conviced her room is hunted we want to use the ouija bored to tell us is that a good idea?
BatBoy 67 post s 26-Jul-2006 10:37 PM	sammyi17: bad idea. You are not in the correct frame of mind for experimentation with ouija boards. They're apparently is a preconceived notion that you will communicate with spirits. I highly recommend that you read every post on this thread. You will quickly learn that there is a simple explanation for the operation of ouija boards that does not involve spirits. Your pal, BatBoy
Morgana 7 post s 29-Jul-2006 12:27 AM	haii batboy soz havent been on in a while my email is protected so im ok lol. how old are u anyway?? have you ever used a ouija board b4?? mwa morgana
BatBoy 68 post s 30-Jul-2006 1:08 AM	If you read my earlier posts in this thread. You'll have the answer to your question. My age is 48 at least today. Your pal, BatBoy
I_c_you 1 post 30-Jul-2006 12:06 PM	Hey pplz dis is mai first time umm having dis. I wanna ask some questions u knoe cuhz im not really a BELIVER in da Ouija Boards.Lok mai friend is gonna buy me a Ouija Board for mai birthday. And i knoe i said dat i dont belive in da Ouija board but i wanna knoe if i kept it in mai room, if its gonna do something bad to me??? Cuhz i heard lots of RUMORS liek if u throw it away it comes back to u. But I dont belive dat. Im in middle school,and pplzs are talking bout da Ouija Boards alot. So...I figure i want to try it out and talk to ghosts. Another question is dat if i do play da ouija board and den it spells out mai name will i die? Or bad luck will come? Plz answer dis questions for me i really wanna knoe thankx.

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