I have been studying the paranormal for over 20 years. I am of the opinion that there is a rational explanation for a majority of what some consider mysteries in this world.
If you have questions for, or would like to open a dialogue with a real pedigree skeptic. You may find that we could be a benefit to each other. I've found on many occasions that a critical look at a situation such as a haunting or paranormal activity. Can unearth some interesting answers.
Thanks in advance.
BatBoy
Last Edited by BatBoy on Jul 23, 2005 12:03 AM
I have found the same thing. A very high percentage are explainable. It is my hope that science will catch up with the unexplained phenomena and then it won't be paranormal anymore. In the process we will have all learned a great deal. Healthy skepticism is a good thing. There is nothing like first hand experience. I tell people all the time to incorporate what I say if it feels right to them, otherwise reject it. All I can do is share my experiences. To remove all doubt one must have an experience of their own.
Thanks, Bonnie Vent San Diego Paranormal Research Project www.sdparanormal.com
First of all, let me give you credit on your research What originally attracted me to your web site was your research on the Psychophone.
With that said it is my opinion that the paranormal community has a tremendous burden of proof to bear. But does not appear to be taking it very seriously. Ghost hunting with magnetometers and a museum full of orb photographs is not evidence. Also experiences are not evidence as well, you and I could have the same experience and you may explain it as paranormal. But I may perceive it as something, entirely different. Along with a rational explanation.
As long as the paranormal community lives in the world of pseudoscience. And cannot come up with concrete repeatable evidence. Both skeptics and scientists will consider the world of the paranormal living somewhere between pseudoscience and show business. The paranormal community is its own worst enemy.
Wishing you all the best.
BatBoy
Last Edited by BatBoy on Aug 03, 2005 7:35 AM
The issue I see is that we are trying to use known science as a measuring stick. Known science is really just a repeatable pattern of observations based upon the time frame they are discovered in. There was a time when known science said the earth was flat, now we have pictures from space proving that known science was incorrect. They just did not have enough information. We use radio and television waves without giving a moments thought to the science. Someone had to discover the waves were there and tap into them. Prior to this discovery known science would have said they don't exist. You certainly can't see them or feel them. Most inventors are deemed crazy until they get enough data to be able to repeat the experiences for all to see.
My belief is we need to start asking better questions and carry the air of discovery and exploration. We really are just scratching the surface of the unknown.
I agree there are varying degrees of people in this arena. It goes from the hobbiest to the hard core researcher. I also agree that a person's experiences are not concrete proof. If you ask all the witnesses to a crime what they saw each will give a different answer. This intriques me as well. Is reality real or is it different for everyone?
Thanks for the post! Bonnie Vent San Diego Paranormal Research Project www.sdparanormal.com
This discussion is of considerable interest to me. I began studying phenomena (I rarely use the word 'paranormal' as it has diverse and psychologically keyed meanings) about 40 years ago. That included one of the longest continuing investigations of any supposedly haunted site, ironically enough it was Whaley House in San Diego.
During that time I have come to believe what most others serious in this field have found, that most of the effects can be explained by rational science at its current state of the art.
There are interesting anamalous events that do occur which do not fit nicely into this pattern however. This should be no surprise if one accepts the dictum that everything is possible, it's really just a matter of probability.
That does not give us leave to ignore good practice and discipline. In my experience there have been three kinds of people interested in phenomena be it hauntings, apparitions, PK or whatever. The first are the abject believers. Show them a TV show and it's real. The second are the open skeptics. This characterizes a large population. And of course finally we have the pure skeptic who like the abject believer, could walk into a house the likes of 'Poltergeist' (the movie) and still remain unimpressed.
Map onto this another orthogony of individuals who range from the subjective to the objective in any belief they may entertain in phenomena. Those who are more 'subjective' tend to talk from a basis of faith, belief and myth. Those who are more 'objective' are use reason and fact to prove hypotheses that are subsequently written up and published in peer-reviewed journals such as the Journal of Parapsychology.
The whole field of parapsychology is a recognized science by the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS). That recognition which came in the early 1980's I believe, was a key milestone for the field in this country.
Parapsychologists are not terribly colorful; they don't go around with little black bags and are really rarely well-known outside of parapsychology circles.
There are a few, Loyd Auerbach is as he puts it "the mouthpiece for parapsychology" in this country, you'll see him time and again. But the others currently working you likely wont know, Tart, Klimo, Puthoff, Targ, Honorton, Roll, Schmeidler, Stephenson and Heath. And that's just a small sample working in the U.S. alone.
My point is that when we step away from discussions of 'ghosts' and 'spirits' as important as that is to the human psyche, there's a whole other world of study, more formal, more rigid and far more demanding in its standards frankly than most of the rest of the natural sciences, as hard as that may be to believe.
It is from this cross-disciplinary international body of work that the important and emerging information on the field emerges and eventually comes to light. This is NOT ghost-hunting. Rather it is the study of the mechanics of phenomena, in otherwords 'parapsychology'. And virtually every one of those folks are highly skeptical. Welcome! You are in very good company!
Nonetheless, it still comes down to my original statement. The paranomal community is not taking its burden of proof seriously. With all due respect, I cannot accept any research from Loyd Auerbach he is merely a showman. And like a majority of parapsychologists. He has the distinctive flaw of being a true believer. It is not science to walk into a situation with a preconceived notion. Mr.Auerbach , like so many others is merely working to verify his own set of beliefs. It would be much the same as asking Oral Roberts to do a critical study on Christianity.
When it comes to the subject of hauntings I still remain unimpressed. As I have stated before, I have been a part of or asked to participate in many investigations for the past 20 years. Back East, our equivalent to your Whaley House was the ongoing investigation of the Bell Which in Adams Tennessee. The Bell Which is interesting because it is supposedly one of the country's oldest hauntings. What I discovered as a skeptic is that the legend took on a dynamic of its own. And that Kate (as you most likely know is supposedly the Bell which) is accused of everything from stalled cars. To lost house keys and anything in the area that could be called out of the ordinary. Years ago when it was permitted. I spent the night in the Bell Which cave. Which I was told by a supposedly psychic was the heart or the vortex of Kates energy.
It was the best nights sleep I ever had. This is of course only one small example of my findings, but I think that it indicates the group dynamic that happens, not only with ghost hunters. But within the community of the parapsychologists as well. Someone within the dark ages determined that X activity equals the dead coming back for a visit. In other words in my opinion parapsychologists are too quick to jump to conclusions. Even though many of them show restraint with their findings. They're all striving to reach the conclusion that the dead are coming back for a visit.
I do think however that there is something going on. I am not that close minded. But I also think to logically to imagine that the dead are coming back to communicate. It is my opinion that there is something going on within the human experience. That is actually more fascinating than the idea of the dead coming back to communicate by rattling dishes and waiting for some psychic to figure out the first letter of their name.
Unfortunately, these answers, I do not believe will come from parapsychologists it will have to come at a time when science decides to take a very close look at this phenomenon. One day when this time does arrive both paranormal and panarapsychologists community may not accept the conclusions reached.
By the way I know that there is a thin gray line between skepticism and cynicism. If I appear to cynical, please just kick me in the pants.
I now live on the West Coast and would like to visit the Whaley House.
I'm ending my posting for tonight (and probably the next week or so) with this topic and thread being acknowledged. This entire discussion was wonderful! Excellent points and observations were made by all participants, in my opinion, and any disagreement was handled with complete respect. Bravo!
